Curse

TheDarkGod · Feb 10, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I have to agree with the overall consensus of this thread... the PvE paragon suffers tremendously because of the abuse of the PvP paragon, and it simply isn't fair to the playerbase.

A single Paragon used to be a welcome member of a balanced PvE team, but now they are virtually useless as a support character, or anything else for that matter.

A far more fair solution would be, as has already been suggested, limit the number of party members in PvP to X or less of a single primary profession... 2 or 3 or whatever, if the main reason for all these nerfs is 6-8 paragons running around chaining skills in a particular way.

Stop letting PvP exploits destroy the PvE experience. There has to be a way to balance PvP without trashing PvE in the process, and the paragon nerf is a prime example of just how much this affects the playerbase.

Zaganher Deathbane · Feb 10, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Like I said in the other site, may be instead of limiting a certain class per team, why not limit the use of a certain skill per team instead. Cause limiting a certain class per team would sometimes force a member to use a class he's not comfortable playing. As I've noticed, the skill becomes overpowered if used for more than the devs intended it to be used. Thus, a skill that seems not too powerful but if used for more than once in a team tend to be a headache for other players to handle

The Ernada · Feb 10, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

Aparently several players do not know that NC-Soft is the makers of the game and not Arena -Net.

Wrong. Anet is the game developer and studio that MAKES Guild Wars. NCSoft may own Anet but they DONT make the game. NCSoft is the big boss but they are not the creators of the game.

Series · Feb 10, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkGod

Stop letting PvP exploits destroy the PvE experience. There has to be a way to balance PvP without trashing PvE in the process, and the paragon nerf is a prime example of just how much this affects the playerbase.

Agreed entirely. This is really getting out of hand. I can honestly say that, for the first time since I started playing GW, I have started looking around at other online RPGs. Maybe I will wait a few months after chapter 4 comes out to see what kind of shenanigans they pull on that one, so that I don't waste my time working so hard on a character that gets trashed because of abusive PvP players. I loved my Paragon... sigh.

The Ernada · Feb 10, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

The nerfs are "destroying the PVE experience?" Arent you guys overreacting just a tad? I thought the repetitive nature of PVE is what is making PVE unfun.

Series · Feb 10, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

The nerfs are "destroying the PVE experience?" Arent you guys overreacting just a tad?

Nope. Now, Paragons are basically worthless. I just captured "Incoming!" today, before the update. I was so excited, and I made up a bunch of fun builds with it right away. It was an awesome skill, and it made me feel like I was really benefiting my team. Then, the update came, and when I saw that ridiculous 3 second duration, I was... well... lets just say a tad bit annoyed. Especially since the last 2 updates were filled with anti-paragon changes. This was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak... they completely destroyed several great skills and damaged others. I went through my builds and I had trouble finding any that weren't severely damaged since a month ago. All because of the fact that 6 paragons spamming shouts at each other is overpowered in HA.

However, I hope Anet realizes the irony in what they did. By nerfing the Paragons in such a way, they are ONLY useful in large groups, basically slightly nerfing the abusers and completely destroying the people who played the class like it was meant to be played.

The fact is, when decent skills are completely destroyed because people abuse them, yes, it does run my game experience.

twicky_kid · Feb 10, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Looks like the paragon and rit switched. Rits are now useful as paragons are now useless.

All the paragons dmg reduction has been hit. Their healing ability hit. Now more nerfs to the spear.

Anet just delete the paragon and save yourself and players the trouble.

How about instead of just nerfing everything they have to oblivion put a limit on how many allies the shouts can affect at one time. That makes 1-2 paragons useful while a full team would be redundant.

Westofeden · Feb 10, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

This sucks, I liked paras

.

Avarre · Feb 10, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

The nerfs are "destroying the PVE experience?" Arent you guys overreacting just a tad? I thought the repetitive nature of PVE is what is making PVE unfun.

Not to mention the fact you could run an empty skillbar, no armor, and seven henchmen and easily complete any standard PvE area.

Blackhearted · Feb 10, 2007, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

*the typical grenth rant*

I guess i was wrong earlier, there's still one person who will complain about it. Even if that relatively low armor melee owns them for a significantly lower time now...

zwei2stein · Feb 10, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

There was plenty of opportunity to give feedback. I'm not fan of Anets communication policy, but there was opportunity this time. The fact that you were wilfully ignorant to things happening in Guild Wars is your own fault.

What about fact that anet graciously ignored big WTF from Paragon players.

windcaller · Feb 10, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

and again....mesmers didn't get the buff.
What in the name of Hell must i do to make ANet buff the bloody mesmer!?!?

ShadowStorm · Feb 10, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

My Paragon is going on strike. I won't log in as my Paragon until I think the skills that got nerfed in this update have been properly fixed.

There was absolutely no reason to nerf the damage on Cruel Spear. It's inferior to Eviserate as it is.

They're on Fire is now only useful at 16 attribute. I really can't see anyone specializing that high in Leadership just for They're on fire.

They already nerfed the energy cost for Stand your Ground in the last update. Why nerf it so that it costs the player even more energy in this update?

Incoming is now impossible to use. It was difficult to time it so that you could catch a warrior or assassin's spike chain with a 5 second duration, even if you knew exactly when it was coming. With 3 seconds, it's worse than Otyugh's Cry. At least Otyugh's Cry trys to keep your pet alive. A 3 second Incoming can't keep anyone alive.

zakaria · Feb 10, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Not to mention the fact you could run an empty skillbar, no armor, and seven henchmen and easily complete any standard PvE area.

Wow..we are learning so much from your PvE experience mighty one, post useful reply to those who lost their favorite character and skills or don't post at all..mod.

pigdestroyer · Feb 10, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

ok pve'ers, you will last 2 secs longer to kill some mindless mob, who cares?

the paragons were overpowered in pvp, because there are really few counters to them.

TheBaron82 · Feb 10, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by windcaller

and again....mesmers didn't get the buff.
What in the name of Hell must i do to make ANet buff the bloody mesmer!?!?

Mesmer is fine as is, although I think they overnerfed Spiritual pain and esurge didnt need to be nerfed (it's an elite cmon), Mantra of recovery on the other hand got a huge buff. Back to the para discussion yes I do think nerfing incoming is increably stupid, it's an elite for god shake 3 secs for 10 energy? Well that might still be useful in a 8 para team but nowhere else. It seems to me that when Anet nerfed something it usually never being use again (Ether Renewal, Energizing Finale and Divine Boon are a few). And if you still like the skill it will get nerf again.

Seamus Finn · Feb 10, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

I can't say that I am happy that they nerfed cruel. It didn't seem totally unbalanced to me and it didn't cause any rediculous situations... whereas angelic bond did. I saw a guild with a 3k ranking put together an angelic bond based build and they made it into the 20s because you can't actually hurt ANYTHING once the build is up and running, and since you have around a minute before any realistic fighting can begin there is basically no room for disruption. Yay for the bond nerf. Nerfing any of the other paragon defensive skills makes sense as well since the stacking on them is astoundingly effective. Crying about incoming is really a misunderstanding of the skill. It was never, in my opinion, meant to be an antipressure skill but rather a hard counter to spiking. As such, if it were used as intended it shouldn't matter if it lasted 3 seconds or 10. A skilled player has it up when the spike comes and the skill works as intended. Of course, the incoming chaining is what caused the repeated nerfs. The other two spear attacks never really gathered my interest much. Since the cruel nerf hit wasn't terribly hard, I'd say the GFTE guy is still very powerful as an offensive character and will be run quite a bit. If you honestly can't find a way to abuse paragon skills in PvE though...

keli · Feb 10, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

ok pve'ers, you will last 2 secs longer to kill some mindless mob, who cares?

the paragons were overpowered in pvp, because there are really few counters to them.

It seems that you never ever played pve before.

In pve somewhere you need more experience to go foward than pvp. And actually you deal half damage on 24< mobs.

And whatever you will last 10minutes longer to kill 6 paras, who cares??

And in gvg dont tell me that you cant split into 2 teams against paras...

Navaros · Feb 10, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I find it funny how hardcore PVPers generally thumb their noses at PVEers who have everything nerfed to crap constantly on them, and the PVPers say it doesn't matter since PVE is so easy --- yet those same PVPers are the ones who whine incessantly on fansites for nerfs to happen on any common and effective PVP build that they are not skilled enough to beat. Therefore PVP is too hard for the nose-thumbing PVPers, but they have the luxury of having Anet nerf anything they can't beat in PVP because it is too hard for them (often with multiple distinct nerfs to the same thing after even once the first few nerfs are done, the PVP players still can't win against the overly-nerfed skills), and then they have the audacity to claim PVE is easier than PVP.

The hardcore PVPers who do that might reasonably be able to thumb their noses at PVEers when and if they themselves stop crying incessantly for everything to be nerfed, but of course that will never happen. In a way I would say the PVEers' attitude is more respectable and PVE is indeed harder, because the PVEers don't whine for nerfs constantly and then have those nerfs delivered by the devs.

Reading this thread I don't think it's fair to just complain about the Paragon nerfs. Dervish avatars got ridiculously nerfed twice in a matter of weeks. Dervish and Paragon were already way over-nerfed after the PVP preview for NF.

Doesn't seem fair to me that Anet sells the game directly on certain selling points, then nerfs many of those selling points to crap a few months later after the sales are made. Ie: Heroes being allowed in PVP then getting the ability to use them in PVP gets nerfed, Dervish avatars supposed to be very powerful skills that summon the power of the gods then they get nerfed multiple times etc. etc.

What Anet should do is start adopting an anti-nerf mentality, and very rarely ever nerf anything. The hardcore PVP players who are not skilled enough to counter the skills as they were originally designed should learn to play better instead of having the "whine about it incessantly until Anet nerfs it for us" mentality which ends up ruining the game for the majority of players every time Anet swings the nerf bat. Those who cry for anything to be nerfed are always a very small minority of the playerbase anyhow - so why cater to them?

The Ernada · Feb 10, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

I find it funny how hardcore PVPers generally thumb their noses at PVEers who have everything nerfed to crap constantly on them, and the PVPers say it doesn't matter since PVE is so easy --- yet those same PVPers are the ones who whine incessantly on fansites for nerfs to happen on any common and effective PVP build that they are not skilled enough to beat. Therefore PVP is too hard for the nose-thumbing PVPers, but they have the luxury of having Anet nerf anything they can't beat in PVP because it is too hard for them (often with multiple distinct nerfs to the same thing after even once the first few nerfs are done, the PVP players still can't win against the overly-nerfed skills), and then they have the audacity to claim PVE is easier than PVP.

Ugh. Such horrible logic. You cant honestly believe the garbage you just wrote.